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[NO BUG] Clock Timing Behaviour - Printable Version

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[NO BUG] Clock Timing Behaviour - ipassenger - 10-23-2021

Hi,

When clocking the Nerdeq from another source (ES3+5) and using the clock out and reset to trigger another sequencer am getting around an 8-9ms delay between the sequences generated by the nerd and my other sequencers.

To be more specifc;
  • To get the Nerd's Sequences to be in time with my computer, am sending a negative delayed clock (-8.5ms) to the nerdseq clock inputs (with the clock in mode set to mod.clock24).  
  • I then use the clock out on the nerdseq to send this clock to onwards to my ER101/102.  
  • When I do this the ER101/102 is 8.5ms in front of the nerdseq.
  • So am assuming the clock the nerdseq receives is being echoed straight out again. 
  • Would it be possible to account for this within the nerd in some way.
I also tested a similar situation using the internal clock on its own, so the nerdseq set to internal but sending its clock to the er101/102 and am seeing a similar 8.5ms delay between patterns generated in the nerd vs those from the er101/102 with the Er being in front of the nerd.

Furthermore am seeing the same behaviour if the nerd is set to midi for its clock in source... seems like the latency for the internal sequencer in the nerd to spool up is around 8.5ms.

So I think what I am asking is could we have a setting to account for this on the clock outputs?


RE: Clock Timing Behaviour - XORadmin - 10-23-2021

(10-23-2021, 04:03 PM)ipassenger Wrote: Hi,

When clocking the Nerdeq from another source (ES3+5) and using the clock out and reset to trigger another sequencer am getting around an 8-9ms delay between the sequences generated by the nerd and my other sequencers.

To be more specifc;
  • To get the Nerd's Sequences to be in time with my computer, am sending a negative delayed clock (-8.5ms) to the nerdseq clock inputs (with the clock in mode set to mod.clock24).  
  • I then use the clock out on the nerdseq to send this clock to onwards to my ER101/102.  
  • When I do this the ER101/102 is 8.5ms in front of the nerdseq.
  • So am assuming the clock the nerdseq receives is being echoed straight out again. 
  • Would it be possible to account for this within the nerd in some way.
I also tested a similar situation using the internal clock on its own, so the nerdseq set to internal but sending its clock to the er101/102 and am seeing a similar 8.5ms delay between patterns generated in the nerd vs those from the er101/102 with the Er being in front of the nerd.

Furthermore am seeing the same behaviour if the nerd is set to midi for its clock in source... seems like the latency for the internal sequencer in the nerd to spool up is around 8.5ms.

So I think what I am asking is could we have a setting to account for this on the clock outputs?

Hey, are you sure you didn't have just the trigger delay turned on?

The clock should be very stable normally and act within the microsecond area.


RE: Clock Timing Behaviour - ipassenger - 10-23-2021

lol, had to look that up to check, as I didn't know about trigger delay but no it is off for the track.

Even tried creating a new pattern, to clear the memory etc

That being said it could well be a setting I am missing somewhere, the nerd is a complex beast!

Ooh this is with autogate notes, in case that has any bearing

And standard modular tracks, not tried the trigger sequencer ones but I will do if that helps?


RE: Clock Timing Behaviour - XORadmin - 10-23-2021

(10-23-2021, 04:24 PM)ipassenger Wrote: lol, had to look that up to check, as I didn't know about trigger delay but no it is off for the track.

Even tried creating a new pattern, to clear the memory etc

That being said it could well be a setting I am missing somewhere, the nerd is a complex beast!

Hmm....I'm going to check with a scope on monday (I don't have access to it this weekend).

But maybe you can check some other things. Is the delay the same also with higher/lower BPM?

How does your sequence look like that you compare with the output?
If it is not project related it makes of course no sense to send me the project.


RE: Clock Timing Behaviour - ipassenger - 10-23-2021

Yeah doesn't seem to be project related, will try some different tempos.

"How does your sequence look like that you compare with the output?" Sorry, I don't follow this?

For comparison in sequence performance, was sending the same note/trigger pattern from the two seqs (er101 / nerd)


RE: Clock Timing Behaviour - XORadmin - 10-23-2021

(10-23-2021, 04:33 PM)ipassenger Wrote: Yeah doesn't seem to be project related, will try some different tempos.

"How does your sequence look like that you compare with the output?" Sorry, I don't follow this?

For comparison in sequence performance, was sending the same note/trigger pattern from the two seqs (er101 / nerd)

A photo of the sequence would be fine.
And the exact clock settings.


RE: Clock Timing Behaviour - ipassenger - 10-23-2021

Doesn't seem to be tempor related, tried much lower (like 25bpm) and much higher (270bpm) tempo and the sequencer trigger latency seemed the same.

I did have more complicated sequences (!!  Big Grin ) at first but after I started digging into the issue started simplifying things to narrow down on what was happening.

I've sussed it... well sort of.
  • As am on the new firmware have tried sending the clock out pulses using a modular track to rule out anything related to the modular track delays or anything and the issue remained.
  • Connected gate outs straight to es6 in from (the synced pattern on the er101) and a modular gate output on the nerdseq.
  • If you use the auto gates, it adds the negative gate pulse to trigger the next note, this delays the pulse by 8-9ms.
  • So it's the auto gates that are causing this issue, am guessing you would need some kind of read ahead to avoid it?

Also just checked the trigger outs on the trigger expander and they behave properly.

So am 100% sure it is auto gates that is doing this.


RE: Clock Timing Behaviour - XORadmin - 10-23-2021

(10-23-2021, 04:38 PM)ipassenger Wrote: Doesn't seem to be tempor related, tried much lower (like 25bpm) and much higher (270bpm) tempo and the sequencer trigger latency seemed the same.

I did have more complicated sequences (!!  Big Grin ) at first but after I started digging into the issue started simplifying things to narrow down on what was happening.

I've sussed it... well sort of.
  • As am on the new firmware have tried sending the clock out pulses using a modular track to rule out anything related to the modular track delays or anything and the issue remained.
  • Connected gate outs straight to es6 in from (the synced pattern on the er101) and a modular gate output on the nerdseq.
  • If you use the auto gates, it adds the negative gate pulse to trigger the next note, this delays the pulse by 8-9ms.
  • So it's the auto gates that are causing this issue, am guessing you would need some kind of read ahead to avoid it?

Also just checked the trigger outs on the trigger expander and they behave properly.

So am 100% sure it is auto gates that is doing this.

Yes you can lower the autogate timeout in the settings.
But the autogate is just a function to let a note retrigger if the note changes(if you want that). And some sources need a longer timeout to detect a new trigger/gate.
I wouldn’t use it at all. Use either note on/off or the trigger column for your triggers /gates. No delay there. And no surprises :-)


RE: Clock Timing Behaviour - ipassenger - 10-23-2021

Lowered auto-gate off to minimum value and all my envelopes are triggering as expected, so will work with it like that for now. Smile

Thanks for your help Smile