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+---- Thread: CV16 instead of a dedicated EG module? (/showthread.php?tid=707)
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CV16 instead of a dedicated EG module? - hirnlego - 04-27-2020
Hi!
I'm in need of some envelopes generation in my rack and was considering buying something like a Quadrax or Stages.
Then I saw that the CV16 can be used as an EG too (ASR envelopes) so maybe with it I wouldn't need a dedicated module after all.
I don't have any other EG modules, so I was wondering if it could replace a dedicated module for basic EG duties when used for sequences generated internally (I guess it could be used as an EG for external triggers too, using the inputs?).
From the manual:
Quote:Please keep in mind that the Glide, Envelopes and LFO can never replace real analogue Slews, Envelopes or LFO’s. But they are for sure a very good addition for many applications.
Apart maybe because lacking some advanced features, but why the CV16's envelopes cannot replace real envelopes? Are there any specific limitations in terms of response time or something?
RE: CV16 instead of a dedicated EG module? - XORadmin - 04-27-2020
You can use them also as simple triggers of course if you set the fastest Attack curve and a short release.
As of the comparison to dedicated analogue envelopes. The ones of the CV16 are digital while others are mostly either analogue or they are especially developed and put their full power in that.
The CV16 envelopes are actually maybe even more flexible than many other ones sinc eyou can always select all stages and change offsets etc. However, these are linear which is not everyones preference. Also the attack speed is for most cases also good, but might not be good enough for others, also keeping in mind that since these are digital that there is a quantisation.
So it can replace all envelopes, but it might be possible that maybe an analogue ADSR would sound much better with that one sound (or vice versa of course).
RE: CV16 instead of a dedicated EG module? - hirnlego - 04-27-2020
Understood, thanks!
I guess one dedicated EG that sports either a shorter attack time, an exp curve or more stages is in required, then.
RE: CV16 instead of a dedicated EG module? - mschleis - 04-27-2020
my MoreCV came today... I especially looking forward to the envelopes. But maybe I am stupid but I cant find the Decay in the ENV... its just Attack Sustain Release, which means when the Sustain is at 0 I dont hear anything at all...
RE: CV16 instead of a dedicated EG module? - mschleis - 04-29-2020
could someone explain the envelopes pls? I have consulted the manual but without success. Where is the Decay? Do I miss something? Turning Sustain to 0 results in no output.
I cant create a spiky sustained envelope?
RE: CV16 instead of a dedicated EG module? - XORadmin - 04-29-2020
It's not a ADSR it is a ASR. You can decide the phases youself in the sequencer:
0 -> Attack to Sustain Level -> Release
1 -> Attack to Sustain Level (and stays there)
2 -> Sustain -> Release
3 -> Loop, Keeps looping Attack->Sustain->Release. Like a LFO
So there is no Decay, but you can decide yourself how long it should stay in sustain.
RE: CV16 instead of a dedicated EG module? - mschleis - 04-29-2020
yes but then you are basically saying its not possible to have it "falling" to a sustain level... only rising-to...? if thats the case, this would make the envelopes useless for me unfortunately
the vast majority of the used envelopes in music are falling, leads, plucks, bass, drums ... you have rising/swelling mostly on pads and pads on a modular system, or in chiptunes... well...
why not at least having an DSR envelope where the attack is always 0 (seems like you are limited to 3 stages...)
RE: CV16 instead of a dedicated EG module? - XORadmin - 04-29-2020
(04-29-2020, 03:26 PM)mschleis Wrote: yes but then you are basically saying its not possible to have it "falling" to a sustain level... only rising-to...? if thats the case, this would make the envelopes useless for me unfortunately
the vast majority of the used envelopes in music are falling, leads, plucks, bass, drums ... you have rising/swelling mostly on pads and pads on a modular system, or in chiptunes... well...
why not at least having an DSR envelope where the attack is always 0 (seems like you are limited to 3 stages...)
Those have been design decisions and i state on multiple spots what they are and that they might not replace your regular envelopes. For many cases the ASR envelopes are usefull regardless of the music style. I am also sure ASR instead of DSR envelopes is more usefull for the most peoples.
I'm sorry that these are not enough for you. A dedicated Envelope might be the better solution for you then i guess.
RE: CV16 instead of a dedicated EG module? - mschleis - 04-29-2020
you are quite defensive in your posts... however, sorry that I cant have read anything you posted the last 2 years. I only have seen, that there is now envelope support with this expansion and bought it (since there are actually no videos to inform) and since my seperate Chiptune Case is not that big, this would have been perfect.
In the original NerdSeq there are also envelopes but theres written "not implemented yet"... will this still come or did you negate this in a posting somewhere?
Quote:I am also sure ASR instead of DSR envelopes is more usefull for the most peoples.
How do you come to this conclusion? I gave valid examples... well I dont think so at all, but that is ok.
so please dont get me wrong, I think NerdSeq is a fantastic tool, so is the MoreTriggerXP. The CV could have benefited immensely from real ADSRs... Is there any chance to add an ADSR or a DSR at least in an update? Then there wouldnt be any reason then to state it couldnt replace any other regular envelope *edit: (ok the linearity may be an argument)
RE: CV16 instead of a dedicated EG module? - XORadmin - 04-29-2020
(04-29-2020, 05:18 PM)mschleis Wrote: you are quite defensive in your posts... however, sorry that I cant have read anything you posted the last 2 years. I only have seen, that there is now envelope support with this expansion and bought it (since there are actually no videos to inform) and since my seperate Chiptune Case is not that big, this would have been perfect.
In the original NerdSeq there are also envelopes but theres written "not implemented yet"... will this still come or did you negate this in a posting somewhere?
Quote:I am also sure ASR instead of DSR envelopes is more usefull for the most peoples.
How do you come to this conclusion? I gave valid examples... well I dont think so at all, but that is ok.
so please dont get me wrong, I think NerdSeq is a fantastic tool, so is the MoreTriggerXP. The CV could have benefited immensely from real ADSRs... Is there any chance to add an ADSR or a DSR at least in an update? Then there wouldnt be any reason then to state it couldnt replace any other regular envelope *edit: (ok the linearity may be an argument)
You don't have to read everything from the last 2 years. But i expect that you read the description at least before you buy anything. And in the short descriptions and the manual it says clearly what it is. I assume it also does at the shop you bought it from.
The internal envelopes generated by the automators are indeed not implemented yet, but these will be ADSR and probably more types envelopes. Also here, not a replacement for everything. Analogue envelopes or dedicated envelopes have a much higher precision and faster timings.
A attack onto a VCA+filter is much more interresting with attack times of a few milliseconds to get a snappy start. But i guess it is all about preference.
I am not expecting to integrate other envelope types in the near future. The decision for 3 parameters is something that will stay. For now i would only do maintenance firmware updates if needed.
The lack of videos is very easy to explain: Covid!
A tutorial video was planned right after the release, but then the covid situation started and since then i stayed mostly at home, working in a small attic room. And next to it motivating the kids to do their home-schoolwork. Luckily we didn't get sick and took care about others.
The situation changed now a bit and on saturday i will (if all works well) do a online tutorial stream about the CV16 expander, the latest firmware updates and a Q&A since it is live.